Maverick's 2009 log

[maverick]

My 2009 listing

JAN: 1 MB , 0 WD
FEB: 3 MB , 0 WD
MAR: 5 MB, 0 WD
APR: 0 MB , 0 WD
MAY: 1 MB , 0 WD
JUN: 4 MB , 0 WD
JUL: 2 MB , 0 WD
AUG: 2 MB , 0 WD
SEP: 5 MB , 0 WD
OCT: 0 MB , 0 WD
NOV: 6 MB , 0 WD
DEC: 12 MB , 0 WD

[maverick]

Today is day one and the first 14 days are the toughest.

CORRECTION

Now with the benefit of hindsight, i think the most critical part of the abstinence journey is the first 30 days.

[PlainsMustang]

I wish you the best on your WD quest. I'm glad I could be an inspiration to you.
I know it helps me a lot to think that I have to explain MB to the board here if I mess up. Gives a little accountability, and every little bit helps.

[maverick]

Thanks PM for your encouragement. I will really try to get my first WD by the end of october. If i'm successful at maintaining my masturbation rate at 2 or less per month for september and october and don't experience a WD i will conclude that i'm too old to get one. Lets see what happens. I will be honest about it and tell the story as it unfolds.

We can extrapolate from the article that kidrock presented to this board that masturbating 2 times or less per month should'nt impair the capacity to experience WD's for guys already in wd mode. But going over that threshold would mostly suppress one's capacity to have them. When we look at PlainsMustang WD log, it tends to confim this.

HERE ARE TWO IMPORTANT QUOTES OF THE ARTICLE

Are there adult men who have wet dreams?
There are other males who continue to have wet dreams after they begin masturbating, but the causes of this are unknown. These males generally masturbate infrequently. Perhaps there is some cardinal frequency of masturbation that inhibits wet dreams, and that males who masturbate below this frequency continue to have wet dreams periodically but males who exceed this frequency lose the ability to have wet dreams

Are there case studies of men giving up masturbation in order to have wet dreams?

19th century seaman Philip C. Van Buskirk kept detailed records of his masturbation, nocturnal emission, and coital activity from age 19 in 1852 to 1858. He had 7 wet dreams in the last 17 weeks of 1852, 24 in 1853, and 39 in 1854. He masturbated 7 times in the last 17 weeks of 1852, 18 times in 1853, 21 times in the first 10 months of 1854. In November 1854, he quit masturbating altogether. In 1855, he had 42 wet dreams, only a slight increase over 1854. In 1856, he had 35 wet dreams and masturbated three times. He did not masturbate in 1857 or 1858, when he had 35 and 69 wet dreams, respectively. He had intercourse twice in this period, once in 1856 and once in 1857.

Sexual historian B.R. Burg says of Van Buskirk, "In the years when he masturbated regularly, [the rates of masturbation and nocturnal emission] correlated closely in direct contravention of theories positing a build-up of pressure as a cause of nocturnal emission. When he stopped masturbating in the fall of 1854, the rise of nocturnal emission frequency produced a clear if brief inverse correlation. Then, in the absence of any significant number of induced orgasms, the rate fluctuated erratically in a generally downward direction but remained consistently higher than in the years before 1854. In 1858, for no apparent reason, it rose very rapidly." (p. 219) Thus, concludes Burg, the case provides support for Kinsey's assertion that there is little or no regularly discernable relationship between rates of induced orgasm and frequency of nocturnal emission or involuntary orgasm.

[Thursday]

He had 7 wet dreams in the last 17 weeks of 1852, 24 in 1853, and 39 in 1854. He masturbated 7 times in the last 17 weeks of 1852, 18 times in 1853, 21 times in the first 10 months of 1854. In November 1854, he quit masturbating altogether. In 1855, he had 42 wet dreams, only a slight increase over 1854. In 1856, he had 35 wet dreams and masturbated three times. He did not masturbate in 1857 or 1858, when he had 35 and 69 wet dreams, respectively. He had intercourse twice in this period, once in 1856 and once in 1857.Thus, concludes Burg, the case provides support for Kinsey's assertion that there is little or no regularly discernable relationship between rates of induced orgasm and frequency of nocturnal emission or involuntary orgasm.

Autumn/Winter 1852: No. of WDs = 7, MB'd 7 times;
All of 1853: No. of WDs = 24, MB'd 18 times;
All of 1854: No. of WDs = 39, for most of the year MB'd 21 times;
All of 1855: No. of WDs = 42, didn't MB;
All of 1856: No. of WDs = 35, MB'd 3 times, sex once;
All of 1857: No. of WDs = 35, didn't MB, sex once;
All of 1858: No. of WDs = 69, didn't MB.

This data actually supports the idea that he was in 'WD-mode' the whole time; as I interpret it, this data supports the 'WD-mode theory.' The most he MB'd for a year was 21 times; less than once every two weeks. There's no information about when he MB'd - did he go on a MB-binge for a few weeks and abstain for the rest of the year? Or did he MB about once every two weeks? Should we assume that the MB and sex all lead to ejaculation? He had the most WDs on the years he didn't MB at all.

It's more useful, IMO, to look at his log of WDs/MB etc., in the context of logs from a whole group of people. That way it would be possible to unpick the data and come to a meaningful conclusion. You could take data from one person and interpret it to support a few different things. No causal relationship can be proven from this single set of data.

[maverick]

I agree that's why i rounded 21 to 24 and assumed it was equally during the year for an average of 2 MB per month. But you are right that he could of had a MB binge period that would through off the average...who knows...we don't have the data.

As a guideline 2 MB per month seems to be a maximum to maintain a WD cycle but it could be lower as well. Also it will vary for each indivudual, with age and levels of biotestosterone available in the bloodstream.

I agree also that we need a minimum sample of people to draw conclusions but my intent was only to find some sort of guideline for myself and other members.

[Thursday]

^^ It seems that fulltime WD'rs can 'get away with' a certain amount of MB. I, for example, MB'd a lot in January having been a fulltime WD'r for over a year. I had a WD on the night of the day I MB'd for the final time, and another WD five nights later (source.) My MB may have put a temporary stay on my WDs while I was doing it (the previous WD to those I've mentioned was 45 nights earlier - it's unusual for me to have such a big gap between WDs - the next longest gap between WDs was 36 nights.) MB'ing clearly hasn't stopped me being a WD'r. The largest gap between WDs coincided with the time I MB'd, so perhaps this gap would have been shorter otherwise. MB doesn't seem to make a huge difference to the gap though - only nine nights more than the second longest gap when I didn't MB. The same trend is true with Philip's results - a subtle decrease, in general, in the amount of WDs he had during the years he MB'd / had sex. I know from experience that at other times when I've MB'd until ejaculation every day, or nearly every day, I've had no WDs. Therefore my hypothesis is that while someone is in WD-mode they have a waking ejaculation [WE] threshold*, or 'allowance.' I didn't record the amount of times I MB'd back in January.. I remember I MB'd frequently but can't remember the exact number of times I MB'd until ejaculation. It was probably about five to ten times -- that's just a very general figure.

*Note: My WEs were accompanied with peak orgasms during this period (albeit weak ones / or perhaps no orgasms in some cases, just a feeling of sexual-tension release.) I've only ever had one WE (so far as I can remember) which was not caused by MB: my daytime SE(jaculation) of June 30th. There have been a few occasions where I've had a spontaneous emission during the daytime, such as after urination. I don't know how relevant this added variable of peak orgasm is thus far.

[Squeeze]

Philip C. Van Buskirk is my hero! I was looking at the data, too, to see how frequently he had a sexual release of any kind, and what I got (rounded off) is:

First 17 weeks (about 199 days): Every 8.5 days
year 2: ea 8.69 days
year 3: ea 6.08 days
year 4: ea 8.69 days
year 5: ea 9.35 days
year 6: ea 10.12 days
year 7: ea 5.28 days

Now, of course, I doubt they happened on that regular of a schedule, evenly spaced out and all, but this gives an "average" idea. Averaged between all of them, typical was about every 8.69 days. So, that's for ANY type of release, and he was in his early 20s, so at his "sexual prime" as a man. I wonder what happened at the end, why he stopped keeping his record. Did something happen to him, he was bored or felt it wasn't necessary any longer, did he get married? If so, I wonder what his sexual frequency was then & if he still masturbated at all, or still got WDs occasionally. I will have to look this up--to see if I can read a copy of this log. It would be interesting to know more biographical information about him, what type of person he was, what his living situation was like, etc.

As Thursday basically said, I wonder how typical his sexual lifestyle was compared to other men of his time & culture. There are some things I really admire about Victorian "manhood." There were real ideals of virtue and self-control, adventure and responsibility. Maybe that's why guys then were so truly manly compared to so many masturbated addicts today. They probably lived in that "T-Buzz", and yet they were so classy, too. Very balanced. Philip wasn't a prude and was comfortable enough with his sexuality to keep a record of it, but he was so in-control of it. He obviously had great self-control, and was rewarded w/a healthy wet dream life, even though he masturbated occasionally, but he obviously never let it get out of control. I really wonder how his married sex life was (if he married)... I hope he had a great life!

[Squeeze]

I wish you the best on your WD quest. I'm glad I could be an inspiration to you.
I know it helps me a lot to think that I have to explain MB to the board here if I mess up. Gives a little accountability, and every little bit helps.

Yaay, PlainsMustang! How have you been; havn't seen you around in a while!

[maverick]

Day 10 and doing fine. Its getting easier but i must remain strong. I'm starting to feel the t-buzz occasionnaly which i would best describe as fire in the belly type of feeling. I remember that feeling which i had all the time in my 20's without abstaining!

[Texanguy]

I've read about Buskirk before, but there are plenty of other people besides Buskirk who have abstained from MB for periods of their lives or indefinitely. If there is a minimal amount of MB that would sustain WD's, it would likely vary from individual to individual. In fact, it seems from members here that a few guys can regularly MB at a low rate and still get WD's. But that is quite rare. For most guys, it's one or the other.

I think that the best way to get WD's is to already be having them, when it is easy and natural for your brain to take that route to orgasm. If they are a regular outlet, you may be able to MB occasionally and still be able to easily get WD's. But even then, more MB would likely reduce WD frequency, and no MB would increase it.

But most guys aren't in that position. If they have been MBing for years without a WD, the above probably does not apply. From what we've seen at this site, it is usually totally abstaining from MB that brings on WD's. At some point in the future, if WD's become a well established and frequent outlet for them, they might be able to MB at a low rate and only reduce the number of WD's instead of making them go away.

We have seen many guys come here, abstain for a while and get a WD or two, and then slip up and MB. That leads to yet more MB, etc, and their WD's stop completely. Then they have to start abstaining and wait all over again for a WD. But they keep slipping up, and then give up and drop out of posting here.

If going back to MB is what they wanted to do, that is fine, but for the most part they wanted WD's but couldn't quit MB long enough to sustain them and make them a habit. It just became too hard to abstain from MB to get them and they give up their quest to quit MB and have WD's as their outlet, even though that is what they want.

I think what all of this says is that if you are one of the majority of guys who, unlike Buskirk, have been MBing for years without any WD's, that reducing MB frequency is much less likely (in fact very unlikely) to give you WD's. The best way that we know how to get WD's is to abstain from MB until you do. If there is a better recipe, then we would all like to know. But I don't think that reduced MB frequency is that recipe. It runs counter to what we have seen and counter to what seems logical.

[maverick]

I hear you texanguy, i take it that i have to stop MB completely and maintain abstinence to succeed in my quest for a WD cycle. Thanks for your comments. Your setting the bar higher and its a bit discouraging but i'll give it a try anyway.

[Texanguy]

i take it that i have to stop MB completely and maintain abstinence to succeed in my quest for a WD cycle.

That appears to be the case. It can take quite a while, especially for older guys who never had many or any WD's, but it still works better than anything else that has been tried here. I think that visualization, hypnosis, yoga, trying for lucid dreams, and other things like that may help, but probably would work best if also abstaining from MB.

But a 'slow withdrawal' approach to abstaining from MB might make abstaining longer and longer easier. Also, you are certainly free to try any technique that you want in the quest for a WD. Maybe someday some member here will discover something new by trying various things. But still, the observations here so far is that total abstaining works best.

I think it has to have a big psychological component. Imagine two guys. One goes to bed at night thinking 'I must resist MB, no matter how much I'm tempted because I want a WD.' The other guy may think about some sexual experience he had or would like to have, or maybe about nothing much at all before going to sleep. He hasn't MB'd for a long time and it doesn't even occur to him to MB. I think the second guy is a lot more likely to have a WD.

Guys who never took up the MB habit in the first place seem to get the most WD's. So maybe the best mind set for getting WD's is to make MB the same for you as it is for a guy who never tried it. He doesn't have to resist MB, it basically doesn't exist as an outlet for him.

As you can read here, another aspect is learning to enjoy the waking effects of abstaining.

[maverick]

Thanks texanguy to take the time to explain all of this. I started with the mindset that if i could reduce MB substantially i would get there eventually like a smoker cutting down. But i realize now that i must stop entirely to achieve my goal.

Also i have to admit that i'm starting to enjoy the t-buzz effect of abstaining which is a good sexual energy but not strong enough to push me to MB. If the way i feel right now continues for a while i'm optimistic. My last attempt in july was 21 days so my first priority is to past that mark and continue up to october 18 (45 days abstinence). If i do get a WD in 45 days (this site says 80% of men stopping for 45 days do and 90% after 60 days) i will do everything to carry on.

[Squeeze]

Yeah, I went online and found out more about Van Buskirk. A portion of one book based on his diaries "An American Seafarer in the Age of Sail" can be found online in Google books. I read a portion about his feelings on MB and WDs. Like most Victorians, he was very afraid of losing his semen which was believed them by prominent doctors to be a vital fluid that was necessary for health, concentration, energy, and even sanity! To loose too much of it would debilitate one in body and mind, and was seen as a major vice. This is similar to some of the Eastern thought on this matter. However, the issue was a guy's loss of semen, not just specifically masturbation. So, this included MB, but also wet dreams and regular sex. One doc said even a married couple should only have sex once a month, but I imagine he was a bit on the extreme side, even for his time. Apparently, Van Buskirk, a very educated middle class guy wrote a lot about this, since he became very concerned and was a guy of high morals living among a bunch of sailers who didn't quite strive for the same ideals. For this reason (unfortunately) he didn't hold to the more modern conservative approach to this issue, which is WDs are an acceptable, morally clean outlet for one's buildup of semen/sexual tension, and one should enjoy them and not be concerned or embarassed when one has one--insetead they can even be thought of as a badge of honor of sorts that one is faithful in developing self-control. Instead, Van Buskirk was even more troubled when he had a wet dream (and apparently he used that term, so it is an old one!). This was because if he masturbated, it was a slip of his own self-control, and he understood himself to be mortal, so it was only human to mess up from time to time, but he had strengthened his self control for the most part, so he wasn't too worried. But because a wet dream was a product of his unconscoius mind, he couldn't do anything about it, and that worried him more, becuase he thought he could never stop them. He monitored his thoughts, put himself on a very bland diet (which is what the doctors suggested to "cure" the problem of nocturnal emmissions), and was very worried if a shipmate might see him w/a damp crotch before he woke up and could clean himself. Some of these doctors who wrote this literature which was apparently very popular said that a WD was even more debilitating to one's body/constitution. So, he believed them and seemed to link any health problem (real or imagined) to that, at least during a certain period of his life when he started to fight MB, which we was ultimately successful at. So no mention of T-Buzz there! So I wonder how he did feel, but I bet his worries and anxieties overrode any positive benefits. Our minds can be so powerful! I wish he had a more accurate view of the issue, and would not have been so concerned/afraid of having Wds and could have simply enjoyed them and moved on. I wonder how many other young men of his generation spent useless hours worrying about something that was neither bad nor unhealthy (WDs). I want to get that book to get the whole story, and to see how his views developed over time, because if I understood it correctly, his diaries continued beyond the time he was keeping his sexual activity log.

[Lucid]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=926

[Squeeze]

Wow! Thanks, Lucid! That's very cool. I like TravellingGuy's analysis. He always did have good posts!

[maverick]

Well its been 2 weeks today of total abstinence

A WD should occur after a 45 to 60 days abstinence period (6-8 weeks). The closer i will get the more foolish i would be to blow it. The first 2 weeks were tough and i hope this coming week will be easier.

[maverick]

Well i slipped up last night (after 16 days, 21 days is my record). I count this as MB although it was hands free

I could'nt sleep with this erection so i thought i will put a pack of ice on my genitals to cool me down. It was a lousy idea. After moving around the pack while i was cooling i thought there was no way i would come since i was freezing. How wrong i was....i was so much on the edge that i came just moving the pack around...i tried to held back when i realized i was cumming but two or three squirts came out and the first was so strong it reached my face which did not happen for a long time. When in my 20's it would really shoot out but now at 52 its usually not shooting very far. This tells me that i mb too much for my age (10-15 times a month normally) and my abstaining is starting to give me more power.

I hesitated to report this one because it was not a full ejaculation since i cut it down and tried to resist, thats why i had like 3 squirts instead of 5-6, but its still an ejaculation and clearly not a wd so there you have it.

I am still determined to achieve a wd and will continue...i know it will be difficult for the first few days but i did it before. What is paramount now is to avoid consecutive mb sessions in order to avoid going back to a mb binge thinking it does'nt matter. It does matter.

I need your support and i know i can count on the serious members.

If i have another urge in bed i believe now i should get out of bed and walk around or come to this site just to change my mind...i will do that next time...maybe that will help.


P.S. If i abstain until the end of this month that would put my mb total to 2 for the month of september which is really better than my usual average 10-15. From there i can aim for an october free mb month. Wish me luck!

[maverick]

Just a note to mention that i slipped on september 23 so my total mb for the month of september is 3 now. I will make no excuses but get back to abstaining for the rest of the month and that would give me a lifetime record for any given month...so not bad for a start even if i intended to do better.

My next goal will be to achieve my first full month of abstinence for this coming october. If i could kick start a wd cycle it would really help my motivation...lets see if i can get lucky but i have to be stronger before i get there.

Good luck to other members trying to break this addiction.

Lets go and may we have success!

[Thursday]

Why did you choose to MB again on Sep. 23?

[maverick]

deleted

[maverick]

Why did you choose to MB again on Sep. 23?

Just did it...its like asking someone why did you have this piece of cake....i just felt like it...but i am still determined to kick the urge and i am making progress and i am confident i will get there but it might take longer than i wished.

I will end september with 3 mb instead of my usual 10-15 mb per month and my target will be to reduce that every month till i get to zero. I will try to get there in october. If i fail in october at least i have to reduce it to less than the 3 mb of september and so on, month after month, until i get to zero.

If i could get a first wd soon it would be a strong source of motivation to continue the experience, but i am not there unfortunalely. I will get there, i am determined and i am eager to confim to everyone that wd are better than mb, if that's the case. For now, i can't compare and, honestly, i am not convinced that a few wd a month is better than regular mb. If its true, i will really say it out loud, and that would be a great sells pitch to the other members trying to get there.


Thanks Thursday for your concern and your encouragement. I know you're monitoring my progress and that will certainly help me to stay on the bandwagon of abstinence.

[kidrock]

i have read your log maverick and i realize that until you still consider MB as a source of pleasure, you will not achieve WD mode. you have to refuse looking at MB as a way to achieve pleasure, tell your self that if you want pleasure, just wait for your WD.

tell your self how your gonna experience a 5 minute orgasm from a WD, and think of how more confident you will feel with the tbuzz. if you make plans to MB, then it almost like making plans to take a shot of heroin, as long as you find pleasure from it, you wont be able to quit it.

[maverick]

Well i had a fairly good september with only 3 mb. Lets see now if i can abstain for the full month of october

[Jr8fan]

Good luck man. Were in the same boat.

[maverick]

Good luck man. Were in the same boat.

Thanks. Create your log and we can both follow our progress and challenge ourselves.

[maverick]

I failed at day 29, on october 22nd, but hesitated to report it as a mb because i was edging and regained enough control to have a very small amount ejaculated. I only had one squirt and it will most likely not set me back alot. I consider it an accident because i only wanted to feel like half an orgasm to calm me down and allow me to continue abstaining.

I will abstain for the rest of october and one mb for october is still quite an accomplishment compared to my 10-15 before i joined this forum.

The way i see things, i only had 3 mb in september, 1 mb is on record for october and if i can have zero or no more than one in november that would give me a total of 4-5 mb for the last 3 months instead of 30-45 i would normally have in that period. Maybe the cumulative effect will eventually get me in the wd mode. Of course, i know i would get there faster with complete abstinence but i am doing my best.

I will report back on november 1st and monthly thereafter for the month's summary. However, my log and my profile will always be up to date.

Good luck with your WD guys!!!!

[Thursday]

Reply to post #1:

I think that about 28 days of TOTAL abstinence, (from sexually fantasising; looking at, listening to, or reading anything even slightly sexually stimulating; rubbing your penis more than is needed when washing; etc.,) is enough to allow your body to change into WDM. After the first 14 days your hormone levels and neurochemistry will be balanced - after then, for the next 14 days, your body will become used to its new and harmonious neurochemistry and hormone levels, (higher testosterone, lower prolactin.) So within 28 days you'll be fully adapted to be able to have WDs. Some older people have been having waking peak orgasms and ejaculations very long-term. This seems to make it take longer for their bodies to adapt. For you, Maverick, 56 days of total abstinence from all negative sexual behaviour may be a more realistic timeframe for your body to adapt. When I say 'older,' I'm generally talking about over-30s. This seems to be the cut-off point where attaining WDM takes longer. I've noticed that in younger guys - especially under 15-18s - WDs come at about 28 days or earlier. But it also seems to be much more difficult for MB-addicted minors to abstain from MB, and other negative sexual behaviour. Therefore, it's not necessarily easier for younger guys to attain WDM; they need stronger willpower, but not as much patience than older guys. Probably 18-30 year-olds are the most advantaged age-group - they can attain WDM as quickly as the under-15-18s, but may find it easier to abstain from MB due to having completed puberty.

Of course, there is no overnight change from 29 to 30. I think that a person's neurological setup becomes more 'set' over time. IOW, if someone's been MB'ing for 17/18 years (age 12/13-30,) it's going to take longer for their brain to change its setup. The longer you have waking peak orgasms and ejaculations for, the deeper the pathways in your brain become.

[maverick]

Thursday i think you are right to say that i will probably need 60 days or more to get to the wd mode.

After 29 days i did not feel a wd was remotely close. I also now think that, at my age, if i have more than one release per month i will never get there.

Therefore, my new goal is to have zero or no more than one mb per month for a couple of months in a row.

I only had one mb in october and if i achieve one for november and december....then i might have a chance of a wd. It would be nice for me to achieve this goal ...so that we can see if my theory proves to be true or if i am still unsuccessful. If i succeed at one mb for oct, nov and december and i still don't have a wd then it would tell me that even one per month is one too many. I'll give it my best and lets see what happens. I will report my results.