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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 12:45 pm 
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Rather than continue hijacking mmike8's thread, I thought I'd start a new thread over here on this. As a number of us over there have been saying, MB is far from unanimously practised across the globe by all developed adults. We in western society often like to think of ourselves as more liberal than others, and as such, 'better'. I know this is true for me. I saw anyone (culture or religion) who frowned upon MB as less than desirable. But as has been said on here before, many of us experience tremendous benefit in not MBing.

The realisation I had when writing was that, despite me being raised in a culture where MB was not discouraged, and we were even taught about it whilst studying puberty changes at school, why do I still consider it devalues someone who I respect if I picture that they MB? There might be other issues at play besides MB, mind you.

Somewhere I saw it written that some cultures have no word for masturbation. On the same thread, someone else replied that those cultures quite possible didn't admit to it. Have a read of this article in Psychology Today http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cup ... ion-habits

It's interesting that they weren't able to collect semen samples from some of the men because the men struggled with grasping (no pun intended) the notion of masturbating themselves. It's quite amusing that, of the samples they did collect, many if not all came back with vaginal fluids as well. Obviously the men thought "ah screw those damn psychologists. I'm gonna get my load out the only way I know how... Come here wifey..."

The paragraph that really stands out to me is this one:
If it's prudent to be cautious in generalizing about the practice of masturbation itself, perhaps we should be even more cautious in insisting that masturbation to any intensity of stimulation and with any ejaculation frequency is normal. It may be common for the subpopulation of the WEIRD to masturbate with increasing frequency under the influence of today's ever novel and hyperstimulating Internet porn. Yet such frequent masturbation appears to be exceptional in the larger context of human behavior.

WEIRD, by the way, is "Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich, Democratic.

A good read, and even touches on young men who struggle to have an orgasm without porn.

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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 6:20 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2003 12:54 pm
Posts: 942
Age: 54
Number of wet dreams you've experienced: 30
Circumcised or Uncut?: Circumcised (Cut)
Precum Production: Little Precum (1-2 drops before ejaculation)
Average time to ejaculation normally: 3
Underwear worn when going to sleep.: Nude - no underwear
Have you ever had a spontaneous ejaculation?: yes
If you've had a wet dream before, when did it occur after falling asleep?: 4-5 hours
Date that you last had an ejaculation: 10 Oct 2014
Sex: Male
That's an interesting article! I think there are several aspects to this. One is that if you combine what we observe this site, plus perhaps even more significantly what we see in the content in the increasing number of 'no fap' topics at various websites, plus articles like this one, we are starting to see that the idea of a the MB habit being natural and harmless may be incorrect.

While one of the ideas behind 'no fap' is recovery from porn, and even regaining an ability to have normal arousal and sexual performance, many people don't have that serious of a problem with it, and many see the benefits of in other areas. Improved energy, confidence, and even clarity of mind are definitely experienced by many people as part of 'no fap'. This lends strong credence to the eastern philosophies which have been saying similar things about the negative aspects of MB for centuries.

It is interesting that there are whole cultures that don't even have a word for MB. While I think that some 'self experimentation' can lead to the discovery of MB by some individuals in those cultures, the minority who actually discover it may feel that it is unhealthy, ant-social, and unnatural. That leaves a majority of people in those cultures as people who have never MBd in their lives.

Such a society is inevitably going to see WDs as natural and normal. And since many non-WEIRD cultures have sex only after marriage, the majority of single guys must have WDs as their main and only outlet. It is inevitable that many guys will enjoy them and look forward to these natural 'sleeping rehearsals' for sex.

The participants at 'no fap' sites seem to have varying opinions about WDs. Some see them as a relapse, much like slipping back to MB. Others think they interfere with proper AB, while grudgingly admitting that they do indeed feel good. Others wholeheartedly embrace and enjoy them, and relish the fact that they don't have the turn off and negative effects of MB. It is a common observation that WDs feel much better than MB.

I think that MB and WDs are in a way opposites. MB may indeed very well be unnatural and unhealthy, with negative effects. It may be that the best and healthiest amount of MB is to actually not do it at all. On the other hand WDs are a natural and preferred outlet that is more pleasurable and complete than MB, without the negative effects. As such, I think the no-fappers who enjoy their WDs have it right. WDs can serve as motivation to continue 'no-fap', which might be their actual purpose.


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 2:27 pm 
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Underwear worn when going to sleep.: Briefs
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Sex: Male
I question the ability of anthropologists/social sciences to get at methods of masturbating in primitive cultures in fieldwork. Even if there are cultures with no masturbating, what of it? We participants in this site live in cultures where masturbating is normal, healthy, and fun, and even necessary for male sexual health. To advocate primitive societies as a model for ourselves would be erroneous.

Anyway, if you are so eager to accept the work of anthropologists describing sexual practices of African primitives, why do you reject the many scientific works in the civilized world establishing masturbation as healthy and rejection of it as pathological?


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 7:26 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:49 am
Posts: 280
Age: 34
Number of wet dreams you've experienced: 0
Circumcised or Uncut?: Restored (was circumcised, now uncut)
Precum Production: Little Precum (1-2 drops before ejaculation)
Average time to ejaculation normally: 10
Underwear worn when going to sleep.: Boxer briefs
Have you ever had a spontaneous ejaculation?: no
If you've had a wet dream before, when did it occur after falling asleep?: N/A - never had a wet dream before
Date that you last had an ejaculation: 25 May 2014
Sex: Male
doughs wrote:
I question the ability of anthropologists/social sciences to get at methods of masturbating in primitive cultures in fieldwork. Even if there are cultures with no masturbating, what of it? We participants in this site live in cultures where masturbating is normal, healthy, and fun, and even necessary for male sexual health. To advocate primitive societies as a model for ourselves would be erroneous.

Anyway, if you are so eager to accept the work of anthropologists describing sexual practices of African primitives, why do you reject the many scientific works in the civilized world establishing masturbation as healthy and rejection of it as pathological?


I'm not sure who your post was aimed at specifically (you mentioned "you"). The reason I posted it is to give a bit of perspective on what I personally had once considered to be an absolute necessity for my survival. Masturbation isn't practised globally in all societies, we already know this. I don't think the author was advocating it as a model for our society. I think they were simply suggesting we may need to question the blanket mentality that says masturbation is a normal part of life for all of us, in the same sense as eating, sleeping, and breathing are.

I never rejected any science from the civilised world. I simply presented a different viewpoint from a lesser-known group. I'm aware there is a great body of literature suggesting how healthy and normal masturbation is.

Perhaps it's worth pointing out that I'm just ABing at day 21. I'm by no means anti-masturbation. I was simply sharing a slightly different viewpoint from what most if not all of us had probably been brought up to believe, and was giving insights from my own experiences to support it.

As I have mentioned elsewhere, anti-MB threads on other boards almost always result in conflict as some people just can't handle the notion that there are people in this world who believe masturbation is bad.

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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 12:37 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2003 12:54 pm
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Age: 54
Number of wet dreams you've experienced: 30
Circumcised or Uncut?: Circumcised (Cut)
Precum Production: Little Precum (1-2 drops before ejaculation)
Average time to ejaculation normally: 3
Underwear worn when going to sleep.: Nude - no underwear
Have you ever had a spontaneous ejaculation?: yes
If you've had a wet dream before, when did it occur after falling asleep?: 4-5 hours
Date that you last had an ejaculation: 10 Oct 2014
Sex: Male
I think it's the idea that, like many other areas of western sciences and thought, there is evidence that what was considered 'settled' and a 'universal truth' turns out not to be the whole story. Look at diet recommendations, for example. They've changed the official recommendations of what a healthy diet is multiple times over the last 40 years. Fats and oils were very much officially and scientifically 'out of fashion' for quite a while. Now, some fats are considered beneficial, and better than carbohydrates. Decades ago, keeping a healthy heart meant low to extremely low fat in your diet. Now, a healthy heart means actually taking in a significant amount of 'healthy' fats to keep your heart healthy, and reducing carbohydrate intake. It is almost certain that some people have died as a result of following the official and science-based extremely low fat diet recommendations of the 70's. Some evidence and successful diets suggest that even saturated fat may not be the culprit that it once was considered to be. If you want some confusion, read up on medical studies and research related to the saturated fat of coconut oil, including studies of populations who take in large amounts of coconut oil in their daily diet.

As usual, conventional and mainstream dieticians lag behind, but there is no doubt that they too have changed their thinking and recommendations significantly since they began giving the public 'scientific' diet recommendations. A while back, cholesterol was considered bad. Now, too little of the 'good' cholesterol is considered unhealthy.

So when new information is available about something like masturbation, it is worth considering the fact that, once again, that what western thought and 'science' considered universal, and turns out not to be, may be significant. Google 'no fap' to see that many people anecdotally find that reducing or stopping MB has positive effects on their lives.

Science should always be skeptical. The Psychology Today article is 'scientifically' bringing up information and data that contradicts previous western thought, and brings up issues that raise questions about the effects of strong MB addiction. Maybe that's worth paying attention to.

What is the purpose of WDs'? How can they simply be a 'last resort' to a lack of other outlets when hundreds of millions of males have them without denying themselves the outlet of MB, since they never even tried it? Why do the feelings and intensity of orgasms seem, to the vast majority of people who experience them, to be much better and more complete than from MB? Why is it that a guy can have the best orgasms of his life in WDs, and ejaculate more semen in them, and yet be easily aroused immediately after? Why does that not happen with MB? Why is it possible to get two or even three WDs in one night, all of which feel better than MB? Why do many people 'discover' that going without MB can actually feel better sexually?

Also, should any evidence that shows that frequent MB with porn has no behavioral or even hormonal consequences be completely ignored? I think is is 'scientifically valid', as the Psychology Today article did, to look at evidence that questions the western conclusion that MB is universal and has no negative consequences.


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