Wet Dream Forum

Sorry to disagree with you partly on here Chandru. I am a fairly religious person, I follow Islam, therefore homosexuality is forbidden completely. As I heard someone said before, "God Created Adam and Eve, NOT Adam and STEVE".

However, you have point. This does not mean that if, hypothetically one of my closest friends came out that he was gay that I would cut all ties with him. No. This is wrong to do this, its their decision they have chosen that path so I leave the judgement up to God only. Why lose a great friendship just because of someone's homosexuality? We all carry sins, no one is perfect therefore final judgement resides with God and only god. Sure, the orginal friendship that we once may have had may 'change' but at the end of the day, if he keeps it to himself and doesnt flaunt it and stuff I would have no problems still hanging around with him. Just keep what he does in his own time to himself like I would do with me.

A good post Chandru btw.

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Yes we should hate the sin, while loving and accepting the sinner.

I am christian and I am tought to love everyone no matter if they are sinner or not, but not to agree with what they do. Therefor, I dont agree with homosexuality, but I will not hate them either.

True. God says love thy neighbour, though not in the way they do . I am a firm Christian and I am hetrosexual but I too agree that its not worth severing ties to our fellow humans about unless they try to persuade you to their cause or show indifference due to you having a different view. I will tolerate others but I wont tolerate corruption being encouraged or spread to others. we are here to make our own lives not be coerced or slaved by others.

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Its Crawls in Shadows. Crawls in Shadows wishes people to get Crawls in Shadows name right

I am a firm Christian and I am homosexual. Not really, but was wondering if anyone has a problem with this statement. There seems to be a presumption that being heterosexual is good and homosexual is bad.

I believe that in the same sense that there is immoral hetero behavior, there is immoral homo behavior. Either can be a firm Christian.

I think sexuality is a whole lot more complicated than what kind of hole our dick is in when we are cumming. When I was a teen, I was a pillowsexual and a mattresssexual, graduated to a socksexual, then on to ...sexual.

Anybody that says to me, I am hetero, I would like to ask them to get naked (for the record), and watch a 5 minute gay porn video. If they dont get a hardon or start dripping precum - I MIGHT just believe them.

I believe any given man is x% straight and y% gay - and it may not total 100% - and we may never know our percentages, but if we are honest with ourself, I think we know this is true. Straight or Gay has nothing to do with love (agape, or fileo), and to some degree (eros). I have an attraction to men that I cant explain, other than the possibility that my dad was a "rectum" and didnt love me the way a father should love his son. (In his defense, his dad was a "RECTUM" too, so he didnt know any better, and didnt try to be any better)

My $.02

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As has been said, we love the person, but not what they do, just like we shouldn't love any sin we do ourselves, even though we love ourselves. We just need to separate the two.

Ronald, I would hate the sin and the sinner equally. So I hate you and your stupidity equally.

I agree with you totally. It's nice to find some sensible people around here , not ones who decide what is wrong or right based on what desert goat herders thought thousands of years ago, one of whom was a pedophile. Brains evolved for a reason but some people just don't get it...

Hornyteen15: I, on the other hand, hate both the idiotic fool and the brainless arsehole. You are aptly described by both. Ergo, I hate you too.

I am glad you do, cannon Maybe I am brainless, that is much better than an empty brain that can be filled with anything others say with no independent logic. Don't bother replying after this. Go abuse some homosexuals out there instead, it's well worth your time.

What you say is to a certain extent true, Hornyteen15. But always remember, that an empty brain can also be filled with all sort of things including that which is undeniably true and based on factual evidence. You say rather go and abuse some "homosexuals out there". This clearly shows that being brainless is NOT better than having an empty brain. If I wanted to abuse homosexuals, I would abuse you as from your posts it is abundantly clear to anyone with even half a brain that you are a raging homosexual. You do try to hide it, and it is also ultra clear that you are extremely embarrassed by your raging homosexuality. The fact is, you are clearly a homo, and you should simply just accept that fact.

This topic is getting off course and into insults.

It is not always easy or even possible to 'separate the sin from the sinner'. What about a politician who constantly takes bribes and makes bad laws because of it? What about somebody who constantly lies to you and steals your money over and over again? What about a guy who rapes your mother at gunpoint twice a week? I feel totally justified in hating these sinners. The key point is that their sins are ongoing and harm people.

The question here is if being attracted to or even loving the 'wrong gender' fits into this category. Clearly it does not. In fact, who is going to define the 'wrong gender'?

So let's take two people. One is gay, means no harm to anyone, and would never direct his affections to someone who did not want them. The other person hates gays and wants to control and punish them. Clearly, it is the second one of these two people who most closely fits in with the politician, liar, and rapist I described above. He is the one causing ongoing harm to others. Of the two, he is the one most deserving of hate himself.

One argument presented by these hateful people is that homosexuality isn't 'normal'. But they ignore the scientifically proven fact that homosexuality is found in many, if not all animal species. Only humans condemn and attack others of their species for their sexual preference, which logically means that the ones doing the condemning are the unnatural ones.

There is another aspect to this hatred. Several scientific studies have been done that prove that people who are the most homophobic, intolerant, and hateful of gays have homosexual tendencies themselves. Their irrational hatred and efforts to control others is really an effort to control and hide their own feelings and attractions from themselves.

The test to determine that is very simple. They show people who claim not to be gay pictures of guys having homosexual sex, and measure their sexual arousal. The most hateful and homophobic guys get more aroused than the more tolerant people.

Based on that, I suspect that many of the hateful comments here in this topic are the result of the denial of the poster's own homosexual tendencies. Why else would who somebody else likes be so important to them, and why else would they feel such a need to condemn, insult, and control those people?

Thank you Texanguy for the support as well as a sensible post. I would first like to say I am sorry if my comments seemed rude, but I have little tolerance for people who spread hate against minorities.

And Cannon, what exactly does a 'raging homosexual' mean? Before you answer that let me tell you that supporting a certain group doesn't necessarily make you a part of it. I have, both on the internet and real life, often argued rather fiercely against sexist people. By your logic, anyone with half a brain would understand that I am a 'raging female' and I should accept that. Anyways, I am bi-curious and have made no attempt to hide it, though you make it seem otherwise. It would be nice to finish off this message with a juvenile insult but since I am brainless, I can't think of anything clever.

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Mahatma Gandhi

First off, homosexuality is found in over 450 species of animals, so far. It is not a unique characteristic to humans. It is just a natural order for some creatures to be homosexual (guess there goes the not-natural argument). The other big thing to remember is that homosexuality is condemned in only one verse, whose translation has been heavily debated (in Christianity). Many rabbis have even said that the context of the verse is not in the "Laws" portion of the Sodom and Gomorrah story, but rather the action story. We have gotten worked up over one verse at the cost of ignoring the remaining context of the book.

I open with the Gandhi quote because it is true. Christ spent his life with the outcasts, hated, "untouchables" of society. He preached against those who felt superior to these people and insisted that his followers not cast people out, but rather unite them. Fast forward a few thousand years and the biggest cause of separation is his followers.

Not all of his followers adapt such a narrow worldview. I think that if a gay man that helps his community and a person from the westboro baptist church that was protesting against him were to stand before God, God would chose the gay man over the zealot.

Homophobia is a man-made thing. It is a fear that if we accept what is different we must have a part of us that can relate. When it comes to sexuality, it seems to hit home harder than anything else. Instead of seeing people as people, when the issue is sexuality, many think "I am okay with gay people so people must thing I'm gay..." Which is an absurd train of thought.

Our sexualities are not a finite line. You are not 100% straight or 100% gay. Contrary to popular belief, the world doesn't work this way. Ever wonder why guys in porn are ripped, well endowed and are actually starting to look 1/2 way decent? I'll give you a hint: porn viewership among women has not drastically increased enough to merit a recasting of Debbie Does Dallas. It's because guys do, at some level, care what the guy looks like. It's male-nature. It says nothing about your sexuality, other than the fact you're normal.

I blame a lot of the media and a lot of the "Right" for this weird state our society is in. We are pushed to polar choices in defining ourselves, and we fear deviating from a polar side of things for fear of what others will say. We let that fear cloud our decisions in how we treat other people. A choice that, in my opinion, is one that is misguided and we should all work to prevent.

I mean, we are so homophobic as a society that guys won't change at gyms anymore. God forbid someone sees another guy naked. A group of guys in a shower together strikes fear into most guy's bodies. It is very odd. It wasn't that long ago that the only way guys were getting in the pool was totally naked. I think if guys would realize that "hey, we're all just guys" their attitudes would change. Gay men are not looking to cruise guys in locker rooms or jump and gang rape you at the gym. I've had more comments from other straight guys, typically a few years older, married, that are just comfortable with themselves and their sexuality to say whatever.

Homophobia is not a social issue, it's a personal issue. It's an issue with the realization that some part of you may have homosexual tendencies, or tendencies you'd want to experiment with, but instead you repress them and lash out against people who have the courage to do what feels right for them.

So "What is the point of homophobia?" To scare you into thinking how you feel is wrong. Embrace it and live.

I'm on my phone, so I want to comment on more, but I'll leave it to this for now--I agree with your idea that it's perfectly normal for all or at least most men to have a certain amnt of what I'll call "androphilia"--an appreciation for what we share as men, including our sexuality and bodies, etc. if this didn't exist, a man wouldn't even appreciate his own body or penis or think it looks rad or be able to discern whether one guy or his physique was better looking than another. He wouldn't draw comic book heroes with huge, ripped muscles or be be turned on when he sees an erect penis in porn, etc. he wouldn't have any reasonto hug his buddies or act affectionate towards them. (And by that, I don't mean because he is physically attracted to them, but rather bec he likes them as people, and fellow male people at that. There are things abt them that he likes because they are male, that's why guys tend to have mostly guy friends--there are things that we like abt ea other and our common maleness that we enjoy sharing together. We cOmpare and contrast all kinds of things. No one thinks a guy is gay in the least if he idolizes an athlete and admires his physique and is fascinated to watch him play sports for hours. In fact, teenage boys are almost expected to. He is his role model and he wants to emulate him. But why, because he finds those skills and abilities and muscles and finesse and everything else attractive--he appreciates the other's distictively male attributes and wants to develop more of them himself. Why then does it all of a sudden become gay if a guy is curious abt his friend's penis and how they compare, etc? Why is it gay for him to be able to appreciate another guy's dick, any more than to appreciate another guy's bicep or six pack? If he gets aroused seeing an erect penis, it is a subconcious response, since he recognizes both the symbolic nature of it as an icon for male virility, a virility he shares, and it makes him think of sex and his body responds accordingly. If a guy is totally blase towards that, that to me would seem to indicate some sort of sexual or gender identity dysfunction. Being fascinated or even somewhat aroused by the sight of another guy's penis or cumshot (how many of those are prominently featured in (as you said, mostly male watched) porn flicks?! But seeing and even enjoying that--thinking that that's cool, like you would think a sweet 3 pt shot by Kobe is cool, is not the same as then thinking, man, I want to jump that guy's bone, let alone act upon that. That is where a common androphilia would clearly cross the line into homosexual behavior. To be curious abt what that would feel like is still even different than ordering one's sexualit around that experience or that type of relationship.

But closer to your comment, the irony of the showering/gym changing thing is that that fear of being seen by other (probably mostly straight) guys in a totally non-sexual situation has INCREASED in a seemingly direct inverse correlation to our general society's increased "acceptance" of homosexuality. It seems the more officially tolerant we have become of homosexual behavior/relationships, the more homophobic in practice we have become. The more afraid we have become of each other, the more sexualized we have made otherwise non-sexual situations. You can't blame that on Evangelical Christians. Comservative Christians have lost ground on issues like gay marriage and yet these types of practical phobic behaviors have imcresed by the general population. I am an evangelical, and the other Christian guys I know are generally more secure in their sexual identity and cooler to gay people than those who aren't. There are gay guys who go to my church who are celibate and no one treats them any differently than anyone else. I don't see that everywhere.

I am lost for how to explain this....
Social acceptance of issues does not change the 'private' views people hold. I'd say a lot of people would say "Yea, I'm ok with equal rights for blacks/whites" yet they are the same people that would have a problem if a white and black person hooked up. Or they would have a problem with it if it was their child. Similarly, they may accept gays as a whole, so long as it does not impact them. With the increase in bullying against the gay community, most guys (even other men I know) withdraw for fear of being labeled as "gay".

So, men are afraid of being labeled as gay, which is stupid, but then again this leads to an important point where I think you are drawing the wrong connection between acceptance and sexualization of non-sexual situations. Unlike yester-year when men were naked around each other, seeing a penis was not a sexual occurrence. Now, sons never see their fathers, men don't see other men, and then our brains aren't getting that "it's just a penis" connection. Instead, most guys I know have only seen another dude's penis in one place: porn. So guys are only seeing dicks in porn, which means your brain see it as "Penis = Sex = Arousal" which then, if put into a locker room situation turns into "Penis = Arousal = Fear of being gay" So guys remove the beginning of the equation, instead of fixing the problem by re-aligning their thought pattern. I can honestly say that being naked around other men shows a lever of comfort and acceptance of men as men than anything else. It is an extension of true comfort with self, like saying "This is me, and that is you. I accept you for what you present and don't hold it against you, you should do the same for we are totally equal here as men"

Very interesting discussion. I came across an article which I think lends itself well to this discussion. It's entitled "Can you trust your johnson?" (I'll seeif i cant post the link tomorrow.) its about the influence of porn on our sexuality and visual sexual preferences.
Homosexuality has always been part western and middle eastern human societies. The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Sodomites, Canaanites and many other societies engaged in homosexual behaviour. Who do you think frequented the shrines of the male temple prostitutes? The women of those societies?
The fear men heteros experience i think is legitimate. That they dont want to be labelled as homos because that sort of ruins their chances of securing a love interest. They also, i think, feel the need to defend masculinity because having a dick doesnt make you masculine anymore since gays bridge the gap between the two sexes, especially the more femine gays - wat we in SA call "moffies":
i dealt with this personally as two of my primary school friends turned out gay so naturally i wondered whether i was too. But it turned out i wasnt.
There will come a time i think when the two camps (pro- and anti-gay groups) will hav to agree to disagree. Any force exerted to make people change opinion will only breed more animosity.
What i think gays need to understand is that conservative, evangelical, fundamental christians take their stance from a moral (not ethical) perspective and it is very difficult to override someone's conscience. In fact it is unethical.
It is also true, the christians should not force gays to live up to the chritians' morals because there is such a thing as freedom of choice. I'm bringing religion into this, I know, but that is what motivates the christians, muslims, jews, and other religious groups. It is the same argument as with religious tolerance. To each his own.
The article says that looking at gay porn doesnt necessarily make you gay - neither does a gay man looking at straight porn make him straight.

I will post a link to that article tomorrow.

(Pardon the punctuation and spelling errors plz; im typing from my cell phone too.)

Edit:
Here is the link I promised.
http://utopic.me/page/95293842_/?utm_so ... ookmarklet

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Beginning with the end in mind...
"porque siete veces podrá caer el justo, pero otras tantas se levantará; los malvados, en cambio, se hundirán en la desgracia." ~Proverbios

Well that works both ways. Christians are also free to preach against things that are wrong, whether pepoe want to hear it or not. That's what freedom or Religion is all about.

I have never understood why we don't use utilitarian heterosexuality only for breeding purposes and homosexuality for all the rest as some animals do

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual ... in_animals

After all guys sexually tune far more easily in into each other (same tempo, same needs, same pulsation,....) than guy and girl. It would avoid the coming sex war to which present situation only can lead.

Well, if you put some thought to it, some already are using homoseuality for sexual gratification - some are Bi and thus use hetero and homo relations for sexual gratification.
Personally, I prefer the soft cheeked, female scented embrace of a lady to the rough bearded male scented embrace of a man, in my sexual relations.
It's just a personal thing, I suppose.

I might be slightly late to this topic, but I don't see how you think that being homosexual is a decision you get. Did you choose who to fall in love with? Do you think that your parents chose to fall in love? It's not a choice, it's just something that happens, and no one should be judged by something they can't change.

The post you quoted reminds me why I usually never read this forum. Sexuality is no more a choice for anyone than the colour of their eyes is a choice. Plus, who is gonna deliberately choose a life where they're gonna face the kind of narrow-minded bigotry dressed up as adhering to "faith" displayed in the early posts in this thread?

This is very much off topic, but I just can't resist.



I agree that you can't choose with whom you fall in love. You see a girl or guy and "Bam!" instant attraction. The more you are exposed to him or her the more the attraction grows (if the person had desirable (character and/or personality) traits). So, you can't control that initial attraction, but you can control whether or not you will act on the attraction and initiate a relationship with that person.

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I am not a religious person...but I respect a person's individual rights--I don't believe anyone should interfere with others' personal choices. This goes for abortion as well.

Yes almost everyone agrees that gay people should be loved and accepted. What isn't agreed upon is whether what they do is right or not. Why can't people see that?

This unhealthy obsession with what gay people do in their bedrooms seems so pointless to me. I never hear people preaching about the evils of adultery, poverty, inequality, war, corruption, greed, crime, racism etc etc.

What I do hear all too frequently is hand-wringing along the lines of "well...ok...the gays are kinda human...I guess, so we probably ought to see them as equal...but OMG they have sex with MEN and that's obviously comparable to incest/pedophilia/bestiality/generic crime...I'm so torn I don't know what to do!" Get a grip, maybe?

If you're against the idea of having sex with other men...don't have sex with other men. Simples.

If you really think it matters that much - more than the stuff above that doesn't get nearly as much airtime - then consider yourself unutterably privileged that you have so few problems in your own life that you have time to consider something so inconsequential to anyone but the people involved in the act a problem to you!

I don't personally care if people are gay or les or bi. Whatever. Why judge them on their love life, it's THEIR love life no yours. If you wish to judge, people have the right to judge back. I am indeed a bi, but who am I to blame?

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